Comments on: The American Direct Democracy Explosion 2011, Chapter 1 & 2: Mississippi and Ohio http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 00:25:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anna Tralongo http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462&cpage=1#comment-13333 Anna Tralongo Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:58:03 +0000 http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462#comment-13333 As for the first post on personhood at conception, I do not necessarily agree that the egg constitutes a person the second it is fertilized, but I do think people should really think more about abortion and what they are really doing. As for the morning after pill, Plan B will not terminate a pregnancy that is already in progress. Supposedly sperm can live in the woman's body for up to 72 hours and if the pill is taken before the egg is fertilized then it prevents a pregnancy from happening, but if the egg is already fertilized, it does nothing to terminate it. Therefore no harm is done and a woman could not be convicted of "attempted murder." As for the first post on personhood at conception, I do not necessarily agree that the egg constitutes a person the second it is fertilized, but I do think people should really think more about abortion and what they are really doing. As for the morning after pill, Plan B will not terminate a pregnancy that is already in progress. Supposedly sperm can live in the woman’s body for up to 72 hours and if the pill is taken before the egg is fertilized then it prevents a pregnancy from happening, but if the egg is already fertilized, it does nothing to terminate it. Therefore no harm is done and a woman could not be convicted of “attempted murder.”

]]> By: Ted Becker http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462&cpage=1#comment-13329 Ted Becker Sat, 26 Nov 2011 03:50:39 +0000 http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462#comment-13329 Hi Sam: This is a very thoughtful post. But I respectfully disagree. This "Citizens Veto" is a negative form of the citizens initiative used in Switzerland, California and 23 other states in the USA. I think it is also used in Italy. You can check that out. So, since citizens, union or not, can petition to put something on the ballot for all citizens to vote on directly, it is direct democracy. That the unions wanted to repeal an anti-union law does not mean it isn't direct democracy. In all citizens initiatives, there are interest groups who are at the heart of getting other citizens to sign the petition to get their position on the ballot for all to vote on. When I was in Hawaii. I was a petition gatherer for a group that wanted to preserve the surfer's view of the mountains and not have it blocked by a condo that the developers wanted to build and who convinced the city council of HNL to change the zoning laws. I walked Sandy Beach getting voters to sign up. We were an interest group....and we were outspent by the developers 10-1 in the election. We won 70% of the vote. THAT is democracy. That is direct democracy. And so is what We Are Ohio did. You have a better argument in my next blog...on Recall. But I think I can make an argument that this is direct democracy too, although it is more of a stretch. TB Hi Sam: This is a very thoughtful post. But I respectfully disagree. This “Citizens Veto” is a negative form of the citizens initiative used in Switzerland, California and 23 other states in the USA. I think it is also used in Italy. You can check that out. So, since citizens, union or not, can petition to put something on the ballot for all citizens to vote on directly, it is direct democracy. That the unions wanted to repeal an anti-union law does not mean it isn’t direct democracy. In all citizens initiatives, there are interest groups who are at the heart of getting other citizens to sign the petition to get their position on the ballot for all to vote on. When I was in Hawaii. I was a petition gatherer for a group that wanted to preserve the surfer’s view of the mountains and not have it blocked by a condo that the developers wanted to build and who convinced the city council of HNL to change the zoning laws. I walked Sandy Beach getting voters to sign up. We were an interest group….and we were outspent by the developers 10-1 in the election. We won 70% of the vote. THAT is democracy. That is direct democracy. And so is what We Are Ohio did. You have a better argument in my next blog…on Recall. But I think I can make an argument that this is direct democracy too, although it is more of a stretch. TB

]]> By: Sam Sotrop http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462&cpage=1#comment-13324 Sam Sotrop Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:22:33 +0000 http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462#comment-13324 According to Wikipedia Direct Democracy is “a form of government in which people collectively make decisions for themselves, rather than having their political affairs decided by representatives.” This “We Are Ohio” is not a direct democracy. A direct democracy implies that everybody gets to vote. This means everyone has equal representation. In the vote Government jobs are as equally represented as small town entrepreneurs. This “We Are Ohio” is a giant Union movement orchestrated by “Ohio Association of Public School Employee” Ohio’s largest union. SB5 was a bill that was going to harm the unions of Ohio. The only logical thing for them to do was to encourage their workers to go out and vote against SB5, but they needed a group to collect all the workers and vote against the bill. This is where “We Are Ohio” was born. “We are Ohio” was not created by the people, it is not for the people, and it’s goal is not to help anyone outside of the union. Because of this it is not a Direct Democracy. According to Wikipedia Direct Democracy is “a form of government in which people collectively make decisions for themselves, rather than having their political affairs decided by representatives.”

This “We Are Ohio” is not a direct democracy.

A direct democracy implies that everybody gets to vote. This means everyone has equal representation. In the vote Government jobs are as equally represented as small town entrepreneurs. This “We Are Ohio” is a giant Union movement orchestrated by “Ohio Association of Public School Employee” Ohio’s largest union.

SB5 was a bill that was going to harm the unions of Ohio. The only logical thing for them to do was to encourage their workers to go out and vote against SB5, but they needed a group to collect all the workers and vote against the bill. This is where “We Are Ohio” was born.

“We are Ohio” was not created by the people, it is not for the people, and it’s goal is not to help anyone outside of the union. Because of this it is not a Direct Democracy.

]]> By: Ted Becker http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462&cpage=1#comment-13321 Ted Becker Sun, 20 Nov 2011 04:28:38 +0000 http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462#comment-13321 Despite the scheming and large expenditures on ads supporthing this extreme view of "personhood", the people of Mississippi,given direct democracy as a process, decisively rejected it. Chalk up a big win for DD. Despite the scheming and large expenditures on ads supporthing this extreme view of “personhood”, the people of Mississippi,given direct democracy as a process, decisively rejected it. Chalk up a big win for DD.

]]> By: Ismail Rifaat http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462&cpage=1#comment-13320 Ismail Rifaat Sun, 20 Nov 2011 01:46:53 +0000 http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?p=1462#comment-13320 Regarding the first issue raised in this blog, I want to point out to those who sopport personhooh at inception: 1. If you care so much about 'the sanctity of innocent life': did you support the wars in Iraq and afghanistan which led to the demise of hundreds of thousands of innocent 'actual' men, women and children? If you did, please try, in your oown mind, to explain away the discrepancy betwee your views and action. 2. The world population has reached 7 billion. It is getting more difficullt to sustain further population growth. The Chinese have opted to limit offspring to one per family. Would you promote your proposition of 'personhood' internationally, including adoption in China, India, and Egypt? If you do not, you could be accused of biggotry! Regarding the first issue raised in this blog, I want to point out to those who sopport personhooh at inception:
1. If you care so much about ‘the sanctity of innocent life’: did you support the wars in Iraq and afghanistan which led to the demise of hundreds of thousands of innocent ‘actual’ men, women and children? If you did, please try, in your oown mind, to explain away the discrepancy betwee your views and action.
2. The world population has reached 7 billion. It is getting more difficullt to sustain further population growth. The Chinese have opted to limit offspring to one per family. Would you promote your proposition of ‘personhood’ internationally, including adoption in China, India, and Egypt? If you do not, you could be accused of biggotry!

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